TBT: 5 Rules to Remote Property Management

Hello my friends. Welcome back to Passive Real Estate Investing where we dive into the world of real estate investing among other related topics. To help you with your real estate investing journey, today we’re doing something a little different. We’re going to take a trip down memory lane and showcase an important episode from the past on what we call our throwback Thursday episode. Now, whether you’ve been with us since the beginning, which goes back to 2015, or you’re tuning in for the first time, this episode is a must listen, we are revisiting one of our more popular episodes from the past, and believe me, what we discussed back then, whether it’s six months ago or six years ago, is just as relevant today. So sit back, relax, and let’s rewind the clock for this great episode. Enjoy. 

Okay, well, I’m very pleased to bring back a returning guest, Dana Dunford, and she is the CEO of Hemlane, a technology enabled property management platform. She’s also like me a strong advocate of purchasing rental properties anywhere in the US, as long as it’s a good deal, because as we both know that the best investments are not typically found in your backyard, Dana received her MBA from Harvard Business school in 2018, she was named one of the top 20 women leaders and influencers in commercial real estate tech. She previously worked at apple on their worldwide financial planning and analysis team, and then as well as Nest, which is as the home tech company acquired by Google for 3.2 billion and she worked in business development. So she’s a very smart lady. And with that, Dana, welcome back to the show.

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Throwback Thursday Episode (The episode originally took place in the year 2022)

This episode is part of our Throwback Series and may include references to older content such as web classes, events, promotions, or links that are no longer active or available. While the conversation and insights still hold value, please note that some information may be outdated.

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Great. Thanks for having me back on the show, Marco.

Well, it’s great to have you interesting topic for today. It’s centers around remote property management. Something that I know a lot of investors have questions about out and some of them certainly think about, but let’s start off by talking about what remote property management is and why we’re even talking about it today.

Yeah, the, the background on remote property management actually has to do with the investor. And when you look at investors around the us, so those who will own rental properties, 72% are self-managing. And what you’re noticing more and more thanks to you, Marco, is that it’s much easier to purchase properties outta state and get better returns than it was 10, 20 years ago. And so now you have these two different trends. One is purchasing properties that aren’t in your backyard, and two is managing your properties yourself because majority of real estate investors do that in this need to merge the two together. However, I will would say that most people and I’m pretty conservative with real estate investing and operations. Most people do it incorrectly. They think great. I’ll buy a property in Florida. I live here in California and I’ll be able to manage it myself remotely.

And I will do all the communications online. I will have a smart lock box and that will solve everything. And that’s not actually the case. There’s ways to do remote property management correctly. There’s ways that you can set yourself up for failure. And if your goal, which hopefully it is, is to purchase more rental properties, have diversity. So in a couple of different cities and having one central place to view those properties, manage them and get the support you need is really important. And so that’s what we’re here today to talk about. Remote property management is essentially enabling you to have a bit more control over your portfolio of rentals and getting the support that you need that is local, the boots on the ground while still being able to influence and make those decisions you need with your own property managements, with your assets that you have in your portfolio.

So before we dive deeper and talk about what it takes to be successful in being a remote property manager for yourself, essentially, why do people get, had hung up on this? What is their reluctance, why don’t more investors self-manage?

It’s two different things. One, I would say fear of the unknown, especially new investors don’t know what they’re getting into. And it’s actually very interesting cuz new investors fall into two categories. Once is, oh, it’s super easy to manage my property and other, which I actually think it it’s pretty smart for them to think through this, say, Ooh, but what happens if there’s an eviction? What happens if I have a dramatic tenant, whatever it may be, who says, you know, that that is the reason that I can’t remotely manage. The other one, I would say if why for folks who invest outta state do not remotely manage is passive cashflow. They want to purchase a property and then forget about it. It’s much easier if you think of folks who do have money, they typically a lot of them start because they have a W2 job they’re working really long hours and they’re trying to set up their investment portfolio of, for success in the future.

In other words, they want to make as much money save as much of it, allocate it to real estate. And this is a smart thing to do. And then eventually in 10 to 20 years, once their portfolio is built up, they can actually leave their W2 job. They can go ahead and have that passive income. And that’s actually a much better way to build your portfolio. You can do it faster that way, but because you have this W2 job, it is very hard to be able to manage it. If you have to do all the administration associated with your rental property. And so from that per you do see those are the kind of two hesitations and reservations. However, what we have noticed over the past five years now is with technology and Marco, you guys are one of those out there where you can go online, you can view a property and almost feel like, you know it, you have the cash flow, you can talk to local agent.

You literally don’t need to be there to purchase it. You can go on Google maps, see what the area looks like. Is it built up? You can look at the map view or the street view to see exactly what is there. There are investors who are saying, wow, I can do that with the purchase of the property. Should I also do something with the management? And that’s the question that we’re answering today with the skepticism and reservation that there are really, there are ways to do it correctly. There are ways to do it incorrectly. And a lot of that has to do with one your personality. So who you are as a human two, your portfolio itself, and then three, how you wanna investor your, and do you actually wanna set up a good process?

Got it. Okay. So me as an investor, what do I need to do? Or what does someone need to do to be successful in remote property management?

Yeah, so I have five, just simple rules to remote property management that I think will help set up a real estate investor for success. And the very first one is to be professional with it. This takes a little bit of time. It’s, it’s sort of like onboarding for a new job, right? You, you need to learn and be trained on it. So what I mean by that with be professional is if you are a remote investor, so let’s just say Marco someone who’s just purchased a property from you, they’ve purchased over in Florida, an investment and they have said, great, I’m gonna remotely manage it. They go over there. They might even do the showings themselves in person. And then they say tenant. Great. Here is my personal cell phone number. Here is my personal address. Here is my personal email address. If you are going to remotely manage your properties, you have to set yourself up.

First of all, legal structure, it might just be insurance. At the beginning. It might be an LLC, which is obviously highly recommended or a trust eventually as you build your portfolio, but really setting yourself up to be a business. This is a business. And so if you’re gonna remotely manage, you have to treat this like a business. You have to have separation between personal and your business relations. And what that means is getting a Google voice number that when a tenant ever calls about anything or any of your contractors call or your leasing agent, it goes to that inbox, that, and it’s, and this is your real estate portfolio Google voice number or whatever system you wanna use. I say Google voice, cuz I’m pretty sure it’s still free today. You also need an email address for your rental property. So getting that set up.

So that is connected to all of your accounts and communication and making sure that a tenant doesn’t think because you are remote you’re in California and the property is in Florida, that they can take advantage of the situation. Tenants who are professional tenants will be basically be more attracted to properties where they know the owner is outta state, or they know that the owner is not professional. So if they see it looks like someone’s personal Gmail, it looks like a landlord who doesn’t run background in credit checks. They’re gonna love those properties. They’re gonna be all over those ones for a rental. But if you show you have a system process, you’re very professional and you’re running it like a business, you are much less likely to be taken advantage of. And that professionalism that you have transpires down to your tenants and they will be just as professional following the lease agreement, et cetera.

Okay. So the thing I get hung up on often just because I’m so not used to self-managing, although that will change is the, how two questions, how do I do this? How do I do that? You know, how can I be a remote property manager for my own portfolio? And I know a lot of it revolves around having people on the, the ground, like boots on the ground as I call it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> but sometimes you don’t have that or at least not in the beginning. So maybe talk about that. How can a person get ramped up so they can self-manage?

Yeah, that’s my rule number 2. And this is actually the biggest mistake market that first time remote investors make we’re they don’t have a local team. In other words, they think I will put that smart lock box on. I will do all my communications via FaceTime and everything is gonna be okay. Let me give you an example of where that goes wrong. Let’s just say you’re doing an inspection via phone. You can’t smell. If there’s a dog in there that’s illegal or track like, Hey, is, is there someone in the property that shouldn’t be living there, all of those types of things you can’t see when you’re remote. And if that is the first impression to tenants who are coming in prospective tenants who say, oh, I really like this home. I think I wanna rent it. If their first impression is everything remote, then you are really gonna set yourself up for success.

You may get taken advantage of you may miss things and overall it costs you a lot more in the end. And so remote management, one of the mind shifts that people really have to take is that remote management doesn’t mean everything is remote. It doesn’t mean a robot is gonna show your rental property. What it actually means is that you are gonna have a local team there who is helping support you, even though you’re making the decisions from your home, your vacation, home, you’re up wherever you are. And that local team starts with a leasing agent. I’ve highly recommend a leasing agent. People structure it differently, but this is someone who can help with a lot of leasing agents help with turnover coordination. So making sure the property’s moving ready, then they do all the showings with the tenant. They’re the face and the person who’s, they hand over the keys.

They make sure the property is in the condition that it’s expected to pass over so that when the tenants move out, it’s in the same condition and they’re there to help really sell your rental property is a great experience and a great place for a tenant to live. And these leasing agents are licensed. They follow fair housing. They will be very professional with it. There’s agents who just do leasing. They don’t do any buy, sell business. They don’t do any property management. They just focus on leasing. And that’s a really good way to set off your relationship with your customer, who is the tenant right away. Now you, yourself, Marco may be in California and you may be sitting there looking at your investment portfolio and seeing what applicants have come in, looking at the credit scores, looking at the applications, you might have all that transparency and control over the properties.

And you might have two properties on market. You know, one in North Carolina, one in Florida at the same time, but you’re having your local team help you. And so that is one most important things is to make sure that you have a really good team set up, starts with that leasing agent. But it also transpires down to the professional work. So getting the right handyman in place, getting the right general contractor, getting the right plumber, electrician folks who you really trust and know or who is trust and no. And then using data over time to understand is my portfolio optimized. Am I getting the right price for like basically the value versus the cost, looking at all of that yourself. But a lot of times when real estate investors get scared of remote management, you know, they have properties in different locations. They have like five different property managers. They get scared of remote management for that reason of how am I gonna do it? I don’t have boots on the ground. You can get that entire process set up, but you do need to make sure that you have a really trustworthy team and you’re using your network to help you build that trusted network.

Do you have any advice on vetting contractors? One of the issues I I’ve had for so long is finding good contractors. And even when I thought I had good contractors, I found out that, you know, they either ended up cutting corners or mm-hmm, <affirmative> ripping me off. Or, you know, there was just some issue that would come up, not in every case, but it just happens. It feels like often, but, you know, yeah. It’s just one of those industries and careers that are so covered in negativity, you know, like it’s just one of those things that, oh, you’re a contractor. Okay. You know, you might be a shady person. So how do you vet contractors?

Yeah. That’s a great question. And actually one of the most difficult things for remote real estate investors, and there are really two reasons for that. One is the shortage of contractors. A lot of the, the smartest, brightest, don’t wake up to say one day I’m going to become a contractor. Right. Right. And the second is those who do really, really well with general contracting plumbing, electrical work, whatever. It may be. Those ones who do really well, they’re almost overworked and underpaid for what they’re doing. And so it’s really hard. They start increasing their prices a lot a, they don’t have like an operational process set up Marco like you do of, okay, here’s someone who’s interested in rental properties, what are their goals? How can I get them assigned to the right person? A lot of these contractors are one man shows two man shows where they’re trying to do everything, which means they’re not doing anything effectively and efficiently and that’s not their fault.

Right? Like that. It’s just, it’s just the nature of the game. And so it’s a really hard business to be in for the contractors. It’s really hard to be on the real estate investor side and be working in that type of environment when you’re used to maybe your W2 corporate job, where everything is so structured and there’s operational processes in place. So the first thing I would say is I like data. And so I actually put together an Excel spreadsheet of every contractor in that area. And then proof of how good they are. This can be online proof. So like social proof from all the different various websites, what are the negative reviews to what have real estate agents said about them? Their past customer is that they’ve worked with, what have they said, folks, you may know down the street who have had consistent, you know, they’ve been out to the property three to four times, at least here’s my experience with them.

So putting all of that together in an Excel, I love Excel by the way. So I’ll, I’ll reference it a lot, but putting that all into there and then making sure they’re like for their trade, making sure they have insurance, how long have they been in business? Some kind of quick tips that aren’t necessarily they’ll be on the Excel, but things to keep in mind, sometimes the large, like the huge nationwide companies, aren’t the best to work with. Like from he’s data. What we see as the best contractors tend to be the ones it’s owned and operated by someone local, they’ve been in the business for like 10 to 20 years. They have a team of like five to 10 people working at the company. So they have enough people where they have an accountant. They have someone to help with bookings, with the tenants and, and, and getting things on the calendar.

Those are the companies we find are the best because usually it’s that owner operator or someone trusted. Who’s still going out to do the work, which is a good thing. And so that’s one thing I’ve learned. The other thing is what’s really interesting is you’ll put on this Excel spreadsheet, what are their costs? And so you’ll, do they have a service call? Is there service call for weekends or emergencies different than the service call rate from Monday through Friday or that service call rate, can that be applied towards the actual job that’s being done? And what’s really interesting with our data that we’ve seen is a lot of times the person who has the lowest, like the cheapest service all rate. So let’s just say someone with a service call rate of $40. A lot of times the actual job costs a lot more than the person who has like an $80 service call rate and their jobs tend to be for the same type of job, tend to be lower.

And so it’s really important that you take all this data and then you just take examples, like I’ll ask a, a contractor, how much does it cost to replace a garbage disposal? What are the parts? What are the materials for a Badger five? Like, or, sorry, what are the materials and what is the labor for Badger five? How much does that cost you? And then I’ll write this down because if they give me a different price, when they’re out there, I’ll say, wait, but in such and such call, you had mentioned this, but really getting that list to that’s something that we do at Hemlane. We continue to improve it and add that data. But that’s something for you to do as a real estate investor too. Because once you get that process set up, once, you know, who’s gonna be good in the area and who’s not.

And sometimes the reviews don’t tell the full story, because sometimes people have great reviews, cuz they’re super fast at getting out there, but to you and, and professional, when they’re, they’re out there, but Marco, to your point, they charge $400 for garbage disposal or replacement and that’s, you know, that’s overcharging. And so there’s always that balance. The other thing I would say is, is don’t try to nickel and dime because there’s gonna be a point where you need that contractor to be out there first. You need them to be incredibly professional. And it, if you’re always the person who’s trying to cut on their fees, then what’s gonna happen is you’re gonna be the last person they respond to. They’re gonna get a call on Saturday morning, water heater is out and they’re not gonna call you until Tuesday or Wednesday. And so there’s always a balance there and there’s no right answer to it, but there’s always a balance of, well, is the cost, how professional are they? How quick are they to respond? And then you wanna set those expectations obviously with your tenants as well. The number of repairs that come in, I mean the most you should probably have is like once a quarter is, can be standard. We see also properties where it’s like once every six months, if you’re having a lot of requests, come in, the question is, are the tenants troubleshooting things correctly? Making sure you’re not sending someone out for something tenants can fix. And then also like was the property in move and ready condition when the tenant moved in, because you should have not as many repair requests over time.

Yeah. Yeah. Those are all really good tips. And actually I was thinking of the question while you were answering it, how often it happens, cuz I was actually gonna make the comment that maintenance and repair requests are not that common. They don’t come in as often as some people think they do. And you mentioned once a quarter minor, less than that, the majority of them, you know, there are very few requests, if anything, and they’re just questions, you know, about the operation of something. And even that doesn’t happen very often, but once a quarter is probably more than what I’ve seen, but probably it sets a reasonable expectation. You know, if, if you’re gonna be, self-managing just expect one question or request per quarter, you know, I think we talked about this the last time you were on the show. And I believe I asked you the question about who should not be managing their own properties. Like some people are just well suited to have it outsourced and have professional managements management companies managing their properties, but that’s not necessarily true for everybody. So you, you know, what type of people should not be remotely managing their rental properties?

Yeah. So that’s a great question by the way. And this is where it comes down to you, who you are as a human being and, and reflecting on that as you embark on purchasing your first property or your fifth property, wherever you are in that process. So as my rule, number three, you need to be on top of your operations. If you were the type of person who’s just not, you just can’t operationalize anything. Maybe you’re like really good with like sales and meeting out with people and building relationships. But like your follow ups are not there. That you’re not that type of person at work. You’re not going to be able to do it. So if you look at other parts of your life and where you’ve done well, if you aren’t very good at the operations, like the day to day in setting up a process, you probably should not self-manage your properties. You are gonna forget things. And an example is a tenant puts in a request. There’s something that’s going wrong, whether it’s with the property or a lease question that they have, you forget to get back to them. You miss the 30 day for the release renewal. You lose money overall in the end because now you’re waiting another 60 days to get the lease renewal in process. And for signature, those types of things can be really concerning. And so if you cannot, if on top of your email inbox, your operations, et cetera, that’s where it’s like great hire someone who is operational. And that would be a full service property manager.

Got it. So outta curiosity, how does Hemlane help you stay organized operationally? Because I’m a fairly organized person, but I mm-hmm <affirmative> can think of five people off the top of my head right now that just have clutter everywhere all the time. And they’re just not organized. I mean, no matter how hard they try, they just can’t stay organized.

Yep. I get it. I get it. So there’s two big ways that we help. One is organization. To your point, all the maintenance and repair communications are here. It’s all tracked. If something hasn’t been responded to, we have automatic follow ups, et cetera, to say, Hey Marco, you need to answer this question to prove, or, or decline this service professional going on site, that type of thing. So that’s a first is just this system has all communication outlined and helps you stay on top of that organizing things where they need to be. The second is your tasks. And so tasks is very much of Marco. You log in, here’s all the things you need to do. You have a lease coming up for renewal in the next 90 days. Do you wanna renew it now? Do you wanna snooze it for another 30 days? And do it reach out to the tenant 60 days before their renewal, you need to set up rent. You need to, you know, review this rental application. So the tasks will go through what are the tasks that you need to do to stay operationally efficient and get everything done. And then we’ll send email reminders on that as well, every single week of here’s your to do list of things you need to get done. If it’s some, the urgent, we’ll send you a text message. Like if it’s an emergency repair request, you’ll get a text message right to your phone.

Okay. I know one of your rules is all about expectations, keeping them in alignment and preventing yourself from being ripped off from the various people you work with, whether it be contractors, leasing agents and whatnot. How do you go about doing that? How do you make your expectations reasonable and aligned?

Yeah, we’re in and this is by rule number four, which is aligning expectations from that perspective is what you will see is people often. So rentals is a people business when you’re in property management, you’re in the people business service business, right? And you often forget to look at the other person’s point of view of where they are coming from. And so whenever you think, Ooh, they’re kind of out of line the tenant on expecting that I’m not gonna increase rent or the contractor is out of line with what they are charging. What you need to do is put yourself in their shoes, understand where they’re coming from, of why they’re charging so much or why they don’t wanna rent increase, then use data in alignment of how do I make it, where I’m aligned with them, that they think this is a great deal or a great opportunity to work together and how do I make it where we work better together. An example of that would be a lease renewal. So with a tenant, when you’re aligning expectations with them, you expect, especially if you’re investing in single family homes, you’re expecting people to stay for a lot longer, your tenants, right? Apartments, turnover, slightly faster than single family homes. And so let’s just say, it’s up for renewal. If you just tell your tenant, Hey, interest rates, you know, grew by 9%, I’m gonna be increasing your rent by 9%. Tenants are gonna be like, wait a second. My job, maybe I, my income only increased four to 5%, which is what we saw in January’s report for jobs reported to the government. And so what you would wanna do is say, how do I align align expectations that one, this tenant stays there for longer two, I myself have set it up where they are incentivized to the option that’s best for me. An example of that would be, Hey, let me give them a, an annual renewal at a slightly lower rate than what the market rate is. Or even just slightly lower than my month to month. Let me give them a month to month option. That’s much closer to the market rate, where they could move out any time during the winter when you don’t want them to move out. If it’s like a colder place and then you could incentivize them to sign a 12 month lease with you and everyone wins. So always thinking about aligning incentives and expectations will not only just make your life easier to get what you want outta the relationship, but also it will make sure that you increase your cash flow, which is important to you.

Random question here, but out of curiosity, has anybody ever asked you if self-management is hard?

Yes, I have definitely had folks say self-management is difficult and I think it is difficult if you do it all on your own. If you don’t have a team if you don’t have process, if you don’t have a, some like all this stuff about like annual renewals versus monthly renewals. Sure. We just do it an app for you. Like we try to make the best practices, but I do think some people think it’s really hard. Some people think it’s really easy. What’s interesting about self-management is people who think it’s really hard is because they had a really difficult situation. They had a tenant where they were going through an eviction that was emotional. They had a professional tenant that they didn’t expect. They had a contractor that screwed them over. And really it gets back to those first steps that we spoke about of how do you set yourself up? How are you, how do you make sure you’re professional? How do you make sure that you have a good local team in place? Like how do you reduce risk? And you can reduce as much risk as possible, then you’re gonna be set up really for the future and purchasing properties anywhere and following that same process. But a lot of times it does take that upfront work. And so when I think of it as being difficult, I think it’s really difficult in your first two months and three months, because you’ve gotta do the work. You can’t be lazy. You can’t think that this is just gonna be an easy thing to do. You definitely need to talk to people. You need to get educated, et cetera.

Yeah, for sure. So you mentioned there were five rules where I think at number five now, what is number five?

You have to love what you do. I think that, you know, if you’re in property, manage and yourself, managing your properties, that it’s a hassle and you haven’t set yourself up with a good system. You don’t, you’re trying to do everything yourself, it’s Saturday. And you’re just trying to enjoy time with your family and suddenly a call in and you just can’t handle it. You’re not loving your real estate investments and it’s gonna prevent you from purchasing more properties. And so then you need to take a step back and say, is this right for me? And that is really where if you love what you do, you’re gonna continue to build your empire, but you need to make sure that you are set up correctly.

So I think an important factor there is valuing your time and knowing mm-hmm, <affirmative> where you should be spending your time. If you’ve got the time and you can do the self-management, it’ll be probably satisfying, productive, and more profitable for you. But if you don’t have the time or your priorities are much higher elsewhere, then maybe the that’s the situation where you outsource it to a full service management company. And to be quite honest with you, that is actually the reason why I have not brought myself completely into the self management space is I just have so many things going on and I’m trying to prioritize my time with my family. And so I really just can’t find myself going in that direction by putting more stuff on my plate, even though it may not be very much so for me, I just put a higher priority on my time being spent elsewhere. And I think some people are like that, right?

Yeah, exactly. And, and one thing you will see with it is then there’s a hybrid model, right? Where it’s, Hey, I’ve got that local, I’ve got the leasing age and I’ve got people to help me. I have that team and it’s just like screening a property manager. You’re screening that person on the ground. And so there’s kind of the, also all in between of how much you wanna do and figuring that out. But no matter what you do, you need to make sure you love it. And if you don’t love it, you need to reassess your situation.

Yeah. And I think it’ll also add to of that, that part of this, maybe a large part of this is mindset. And so mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, there’s always that hurdle because we deal with this as a nationwide turnkey property provider where people have been taught or indoctrinated by so-called gurus or other people online to invest, you have to invest locally. You know, you have to invest in something within an hour or two of where you live, but that’s an old mindset that works well, if you’re flipping property, but that’s not true. If you’re a long term buy and hold investor where you’re just building a portfolio, cuz those properties literally could be anywhere. You’re gonna get the same benefits, if not better, by looking in other markets that make sense and you don’t need to be close to the property for that to be true. So, you know, it’s a mindset when it comes to investing and where you should invest to get the best opportunities and the best returns. And I think it’s also true with management self management. It’s a mindset as far as you know, whether you should or shouldn’t be doing it and whether you can or can’t be doing it because you are remote. Do you agree with me on that?

Yeah, no, I couldn’t agree more. And I think that mindset thing that once you change your mindset and that’s actually the most difficult thing to do, it’s like changing habits. Yeah. You have habits and assumptions. You need to, to be able to change that. So I couldn’t agree more with you, Marco.

Cool. Well Dana, any final thoughts or suggestions for our audience?

I think that for the audience themselves if you are kind of thinking about your property management, keep in mind that not one size fits all there used to be, do it yourself. You have to do everything yourself or full so service, but keep in mind there’s everything in between and with technology that’s becoming easier to do over time.

Cool. Very good. Well Dana, thank you for taking the time to come back on the show and share your five rules. So we will get this published and where can people find you and learn more about you and Hemlane.

Yeah, you can find me at Hemlane,  www.hemlane.com. I’m also active, if you check Dana Dunford, you can check any of the social media and you’ll see me on there on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook.

Awesome. Well, Dana, thank you much again. I appreciate your time. Great.

Thanks so much Marco for having me.

All right. Talk to you soon.

I hope you enjoyed this week’s throwback Thursday episode. If you haven’t already, remember to subscribe so you don’t miss out on a single episode. If you have a question about real estate investing or finance, simply go to passiverealestateinvesting.com and click the Ask Marco button. . I read all of them, I reply to many of them, and sometimes I cover them on the show, and I’m gonna try and do more of that. So, I am going to encourage you to go to passiverealestateinvesting.com and submit your question for Ask Marco.  Lastly, help us share the show with other like-minded people that you know who can benefit from it as well. Just visit us on your platform. Most of you are on iTunes and leave us a rating and review. I would greatly appreciate it. I read them all and I will thank you in advance. And that is it for today. Thanks for listening. I will see you on our next episode.

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