Being a real estate professional undoubtedly has its own perks. One of which, especially for those investors who are also high-income earners, is the huge tax benefit. Having the status as a real estate professional equips you with one of the most powerful tax tools which could potentially help bring someone’s tax bill from 35% down to 15% or even lower. Some of you may not even aware of this. That is why we will take a dive into this subject as we talk about huge tax benefits and how you could qualify for it with founder of 401KCheckbook.com Bernard Reisz, CPA, CPCU.
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Huge Tax Benefits As A Real Estate Professional
Being a real estate professional brings many wonderful tax benefits. For investors who are also high-income earners, the real estate professional status is undoubtedly one of the most powerful tax tools that could potentially help bring someone’s tax bill from 35% down to 15% or lower. Of course, this is something you’ll want to discuss with your tax professional. We’re going to explore the subject, its huge tax benefits, and how you could qualify.
It’s my pleasure to introduce Bernard Reisz to the show. Bernard is the Founder of 401KCheckbook.com, which gives investors direct control of their tax-sheltered funds for real estate equity and debt opportunities. This is done by using Checkbook-controlled IRAs, solo 401(k)s and Checkbook Life Insurance. He provides an integrated approach to tax and financial planning for real estate investors and real estate professionals, focusing on their unique profiles and opportunities. It is very important because you always have to focus on the investor and individual themselves. He’s also the Founder of AgentFinancial.com which provides tax and financial services to real estate professionals, including real estate agents and mortgage brokers. Bernard, welcome to the show.
It’s great to be with you. I’m looking forward to this discussion.
We hear this term thrown around as a real estate professional and a lot of people don’t understand what a real estate professional is. If I have a large portfolio of real estate, that doesn’t necessarily make me a real estate professional. That’s what we’re going to talk about but before we do that, tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, and how you got to where you are. You talk about a lot of different things, not just about real estate professional status but a whole broad spectrum of stuff.
I’d be glad to. The core mantra and value that I try to advocate everybody takes for their own finances is recognizing that everything is integrated. You have to be an expert or knowledgeable at least in so many different financial disciplines if you want to get the optimal results. If somebody is your tax professional, they at least have to be knowledgeable about investing. They have to be knowledgeable about the kinds of strategies that you would hear from a traditional financial advisor. They’ve got to be knowledgeable and have insight into every single area of finance. Likewise, if you’re going to somebody for financial advice that may not be a tax preparer, they’ve got to know or at least be familiar, acquainted and conversant in areas of investing in taxation. If they’re a traditional financial advisor, it would be great if they were educated about real estate investing. It’s great if your real estate investment sponsors are more familiar with their traditional investments. In that way, you and their clientele can get the optimal advice. When I talk about all these things, it’s because I aim to be well versed in all these areas and give people the best service and advice that they can get.
We’re going to talk about the real estate professional status and what that means and who it applies to. For our audience and they already know that they’re not real estate professionals and they wouldn’t qualify under that status, towards the end, we’re going to talk about what you could do if you are not a real estate professional and you don’t qualify, at least not now. That’s an entire topic for another episode that we can go on. We’re going to cover it a little bit now because it’s important to cover both sides of this equation. Let’s get granular here. Let’s talk about what the real estate professional status is. What does that mean and what is it? We’ll get into the qualification stuff later.
Real estate professional, it’s helpful to understand what we don’t mean when we say that. There are lots of people that would consider themselves real estate professionals because they are investing in real estate. When we say real estate professional, we mean what the IRS would treat as a real estate professional. That’s a status provided by the tax code that allows for the advantageous tax treatment of real estate expenses and losses. Real estate is a tax efficient investment. People that have the real estate professional tax status from the perspective of the IRS are best positioned to take advantage of that great real estate tax features.
That doesn’t necessarily mean you need a real estate license like a sales agent license or anything like that.
Certainly not. It’s got nothing to do with having a real estate license, real estate designation, a mortgage broker license. In fact, you can be a real estate agent and not qualify. You can have that license and not qualify. There tends to be a high correlation of people having a real estate agent license and qualifying as a real estate professional, but they don’t go hand in hand and there are some neat court cases that demonstrated this very clearly.
Before we get into the whole qualification question, let’s talk about why we would want to have that real estate professional status. What are the tax benefits of having that status? That’s what it’s all about.
It’s good to understand and appreciate what the tax benefits of the real estate pro are. It’s understanding what is it about that makes real estate unique and attractive from a tax perspective. The cool thing about real estate is that you can have paper losses. You can be making money, you can be having cashflow, you can have a financial appreciation of your asset. You’re having all this gain and income, and nevertheless, claim a tax loss. The reason why we have that is that real estate is capital intensive. It has high depreciation expenses. Depreciation is a non-cash expense. They can claim on your tax return. No money leaves your pocket, but it’s an expense on your tax return that decreases your income and oftentimes, it can create a loss. Even if it wouldn’t naturally create a loss, there are steps that you can take. Tax strategies that can be implemented that can turn that depreciation into a loss.
Then what happens? Here’s what happens in tax land. Non-cash losses are an exciting thing to have. You can take that loss and you can claim it to offset other income. You’ve got a loss somewhere in your portfolio, in your income, in a business, in an investment, and then you’ve got income elsewhere. You’ve got a loss in one place and somewhere else you’ve got income. You can take that loss and net it against the income and then show and reduce your taxable income. However, if that loss is what’s treated as a passive loss, there are limitations as to whether or not you can use that loss. That’s a bit of a mouthful. I guess there are probably lots of questions and lots of clarification. Let’s flush it out. What questions do you have?
I think the key point that you made there, and this is the rub, is that if you don’t have that status, you cannot take those losses through your real estate. They’re passive losses but you don’t need to literally spend a dime or a penny in order to get them. They’re paper losses, I guess that’s the term I was looking for. You can take these paper losses, which means that even though you’re cashflow positive or you’re putting money in your pocket every month, you still have the ability to show a loss on paper. It’s a beautiful thing about real estate, but you can only apply that to other passive income. You cannot apply that to active income that you get from your W2, your 1099 and other types of investments that are classified as non-passive. There’s this big thick brick wall barrier between being able to utilize and tap into those losses and apply them to other types of income to shelter or defer or reduce your taxable income. When you have this real estate professional status, if I understand everything you just said correctly, you can apply those losses to any type of income.
That’s exactly it. You hit the nail on the head. The benefit of that is if somebody who’s got W2 income or 1099 income for being self-employed. They’ve got real estate investments, being able to take those paper losses and offset their W2 income and 1099 income.
I guess another way of saying that is losses from any real estate activity are per se passive and they cannot be offset against income that is not passive.
The Congress instituted these rules, the passive activity loss limitations, saying that passive losses can only offset passive income. That’s because going back pre-1986, that’s exactly what people were doing. They were high net worth individuals. They were setting up investing in these tax shelters, putting money into real estate. That was either they would break even or they would have positive cashflow. The key thing they were looking for was to get those losses. If you’re a high tax bracket payer, every dollar of loss is worth $0.50 between state and federal. They were investing in these real estate deals to get the losses. Congress stepped in and said, “We’ve got to put an end to this because people are putting money into these deals, not because they’re great deals, it’s just for the tax benefits.”
They said, “You can’t put money in here and then claim the loss. You can only use that loss against the other passive income and there are some other exceptions.” There was a bit of an evolution here. Initially, that applied to everybody. Lots of people got pulled into this and complained that this is not equitable. I am a real estate professional. That’s my business. If somebody is a doctor and he’s got his income there, perhaps it’s understandable why Congress would give it that treatment. If I’m in a real estate business, then I should be able to treat all my real estate income and losses the same. Because for me, it’s not just a tax shelter, this is what I do. In the early ‘90s, the law is updated for the real estate professional status and to allow those that qualify as real estate professionals to claim losses against their active income.
The big question now is how do I qualify for the real estate professional status? I know it’s going to sound a little tricky. There are three main parts to it, but why don’t we detail those out? How do I qualify to be a real estate professional?
Let’s talk about the word material participation. Material participation is a threshold, a barrier that you need for something to be treated as active. There are seven tests to determine whether or not something is an activity in which you materially participate. Some of the more common ones of the seven is 500 hours or more in an activity if you’re the person that’s doing everything. Even if you do one hour, but nobody else is doing anything else, you can be a material or a participant in that activity. You can do more than 100 hours and nobody else exceeds that. If there are multiple people involved in the activity, if you hit that 100 hours and nobody else exceeds that, then you’re a material participant in the activity. That concept is going to be a building block to understanding qualifying for real estate professional status.
Getting into that, the first threshold is you’ve got to have 750 hours in real estate activities in which you materially participate. There’s a lot going on there. There’s a 750-hour threshold per year that you need in order to qualify, but only hours that are done in an activity in which you materially participate count towards that. If somebody has got thousands of hours of real estate activity, but 500 of those are in activities in which they don’t materially participate, that doesn’t count. We need 750 hours in real estate activities in which they materially participate. If you’ve got a limited partnership investment that you’re doing, then it’s not likely that you materially participated in those, those hours won’t count towards the 750. We need 750 hours across real estate activities in which you materially participate. That’s the first test.
What would be a couple of examples? Obviously, if you directly manage your own properties, that’s material participation. Managing your property managers, although that’s not a time-intensive activity, would that qualify as material participation?
Let’s distinguish what that refers to. When we say managing your managers, that can definitely count. However, you don’t want to fall into what’s called just investor type activity. If something is limited to investor type activity, which means looking over the financials, that doesn’t count. If you’re actually managing the managers, which is what real estate professionals that grow their portfolio do, that certainly counts.
What else would qualify? We’re talking to an audience here that for the most part are passive real estate investors. They’re obviously not actively involved, although they may be at different levels. For the most part, they have a full-time career, they’re dealing with their family and friends. They’ve got a life, so they’re not involved on a day-to-day basis with real estate. To accumulate 750 hours over the course of a year, it might be a bit of a challenge. What other activities would qualify as material participation?
They are, broadly speaking, any activity. I’ll toss out the categories that the tax code gives us and anything within that counts. It’s also helpful to outline what doesn’t count. That will probably provide the contrast that will clarify things. The list includes development, construction, acquisition or conversion, rental, management, operation, leasing and brokerage. If somebody is managing, managing the managers certainly qualifies. That’s operations. If somebody is involved in brokering or selling homes or selling real estate, that counts. If it’s outside of that activity, then it’s not going to count towards that. The way to illustrate how the IRS approach that is there was a mortgage broker that claimed real estate professional status. The IRS said, “That’s not really a real estate activity. You’re just getting involved in the funding side and that did not qualify.”
The IRS is constantly stickler to the rules and tries to make sure you’re truly a real estate professional. The way for those people that are perhaps passive investors to meet that status, they’ve got full-time jobs, is to have a spouse potentially meet that requirement. If they’re married, only one of the spouses has to meet that requirement. What we try to encourage people to do is have a spouse be a real estate agent. You don’t have to actually be involved in operations. A real estate agent is not a job, that’s precisely it. You’re your own boss. You can make your own hours and it’s something that’s well suited. If there’s a spouse that perhaps stay at home and is nonworking. Somebody who’s a high net worth professional, they may have a spouse that has time in their hands. Being a real estate agent is something that they can do and have the flexibility that they want and still free up these losses.
I was reading somewhere that when it comes to determining material participation, the IRS looks at each and every rental property separately. You as the taxpayer can elect to have all your rental properties treated as one entity and then the hours would be applied across the board. I don’t know if that’s making any sense, but what’ the difference between them?
Let’s jump into this because there is so much more complexity to this than you’re going to find generally on the web or on a podcast. It’s technical. There are multiple phases to this. There are the two qualifications, which are the 750 hours and one that we didn’t touch on yet, which is that the real estate activity has to be the greatest activity that you do. If you have two jobs, you have to have more time in the real estate activities than you have in anything else. Once we determine that even if somebody qualifies as a real estate professional, that’s the first hurdle, qualifying as a real estate professional. However, qualifying as a real estate professional is not a total game changer. It doesn’t totally change the rules of the game.
In order to claim a real estate loss, you can only claim losses from real estate activities in which you materially participate. We’re coming back to that material participation. That’s the operative word throughout this calculation. Real estate rental is what’s called a per se passive activity. If somebody is not a real estate professional, if they spend 500 hours on a real estate activity, it will still be treated as a passive activity, a passive loss. Real estate rental is set aside that even if you have something that would be treated as material participation for any other business, real estate rental is a per se passive activity.
What the real estate professional status allows is it says, “If you’re a real estate professional, we’ll treat real estate just like any other investment, any other assets. If you materially participate in that real estate rental, then we’ll treat it as active income.” Once somebody has even met the threshold to be a real estate professional, we still have to assess whether they materially participated in that real estate activity that had a loss. That’s where the aggregation rules come in. Before we even get into aggregation, maybe it’s good to recap this and see if the pieces are falling into place.
It seems that the whole topic of material participation is the area of complexity. I wish it was as simple as a litmus test to just say, “Yes, you qualify or you don’t.” It sounds like you almost need a tax professional working with you to go through essentially a list of checkboxes to make sure that you’ve met all the requirements. It sounds like the IRS will be doing the exact same thing anyway.
This has been a highly contested area by the IRS and maybe it’s good to have a little anecdote. We’ve got a tenured professor who’s got a huge portfolio and he claimed real estate professional status. The IRS came after him and they said, “You’re a professor, how can you be a real estate professional? It’s unlikely that you spent more time in real estate than you did teaching.” We had to explain to the IRS that he’s a tenured professor. He teaches a couple of hours a week and he’s able to spend the rest of his time devoted to his real estate holdings, which are substantial. You can be a professional in certain circumstances. If you’re a tenured professor, it’s probably more likely and you can be a real estate pro.
To get back to the technical stuff, the key thing to realize is that real estate is treated as a per se passive activity. Even if you materially participate, if you spend 500 hours in a real estate activity, which would make any other type of activity non-passive within real estate, it’s still treated as passive. Unless you’re a real estate professional that unlocks it. After being a real estate professional, you still need to prove that you materially participated in each activity for which you’re claiming a loss. Let’s say somebody’s got 100 rentals or he’s got multiple real estate businesses that he spent 500 hours on each one. The aggregation will say, “I’m going to treat all my real estate businesses as one. If I spent over 500 hours between those, then he’ll be treated as a materially participating in every single one of those activities.”
It sounds like it would be the way to go anyway because you want to aggregate all the time you spend across the board on every single property, anything related to real estate. You’re always going to aggregate it.
Not always. Here’s the challenge. That’s the thing with the tax code and tax regulations. There are always nuances and there are always the unknown unknowns. It’s very common when people read this stuff on the internet and they’ll say, “I’m good to go.” Real estate professional, aggregation, you can find this stuff on the internet. Let’s say somebody got a limited partnership investment. If you aggregate with the limited partnership investment, you can make it much harder to meet the thresholds. In limited partnership activities, if you’re a limited partner, it’s a presumption that you’re not a material participant. The threshold for meeting the material participation in meeting that threshold gets it much higher. Then you have to meet that across all your entire portfolio.
You’re making me wonder how often people get audited when they claim the real estate professional status. Is that an automatic red flag with the IRS?
It’s an automatic red flag if you also got a W2 on there that says you’re a doctor. It seems internally inconsistent with what you otherwise do. You need these 750 hours and there’s also the requirement that you spend more time in real estate than on other things. If you’re a doctor, then it’s unlikely that you spent more time doing real estate stuff than doing your profession. Otherwise, it’s not necessarily a flag. For anybody that does claim it, a key thing that they’ve got to do and a key thing across any tax issues is documentation. Once you come into an audit and you tell the IRS or the courts, there are lots of literature in court cases about that. In every area where you do not have records, if you don’t have records, it is as if it never happened. There are even cases where you have in theory the case law and you read what the judge said. The judge will say, “Based on what you do, it seems reasonable that you spent this amount of time doing it, but you don’t have records so it doesn’t count.”
The key thing is when somebody wants to get into this, it needs foresight. You need to be thinking ahead. Get yourself an Excel spreadsheet. Somewhere where you’re jotting it down and you’re having contemporaneous records. You don’t only need proof, but you need to have what’s called contemporaneous records. You keep those records as you did them and you want to set yourself up at the end of the day, end of the week. You jot those down because the audit may happen three years later and at that point, those guesstimates are not going to help.
We keep talking about an individual here, but can an LLC be classified as a real estate professional or does it have to be the individual?
It’s going to be the individual. The key is to understand that in an LLC, anyway the losses, the activity of an LLC flow through to the individual. That’s why you’ll always hold real estate in an LLC so that the losses will flow through to your personal tax return. Then it’s on the individual tax return we determine whether or not you’re a real estate professional. You can have multiple investors in a single asset. Some will be claiming the losses because they will be electing a real estate professional status and others will not and they will have suspended losses.
Will an investor always benefit from being a real estate professional if they claim that status and they own rentals? Do they always have that status or is this something that has a fixed period of time?
You don’t have to do it. It’s always advantageous, but it’s a year-by-year basis. You are not real estate professional forever just because you had it one year. You’ve got to meet that requirement each and every year. It’s definitely advantageous and it’s good to talk about some of the strategies that you can use to maximize being a real estate professional. If you’re not a real estate professional, what should you be doing? If you’re a real estate professional, what you’re looking to do is maximize your real estate losses. The best strategy for that is what’s called Cost Segregation. It’s a subject in and of itself. That is the most powerful strategy for creating real estate losses. What that allows you to do is rather than claiming depreciation over 27 and a half or 40 years, it lets you take 27 and a half years of depreciation and move so much of it into year one. Rather than claiming those over time, those losses happen upfront. It’s accelerating your depreciation losses.
That’s a pretty powerful technique. We’ve talked about that in a past episode. It probably wouldn’t hurt to revisit that because it is a way to accelerate your depreciation and take a bigger deduction now rather than wait 27 and a half years or however long it may be. Before we get into this alternative concept that you’re talking about or these other options, let me ask another question or two in wrapping up the real estate professional status. It seems that this is an area that a lot of investors will fall into holes, into these traps. They make mistakes and then they don’t realize they made a mistake until it’s too late until they have an audit or they realized, “I can’t claim what I thought I could claim.” What is the biggest mistake that investors make when they claim the status?
What I see is people that are involved in real estate in one form or another and they make the mistake of not recognizing that certain things are not real estate activities. Examples are if somebody is a mortgage broker or Airbnb rentals. Airbnb rentals for all areas of real estate tax are just a completely different animal. It’s a completely different tax treatment than long-term rentals. If somebody spends to Airbnb, that’s an act of business. Time spent in that is not time spent in the real estate activity. Hotels, hospitality, mortgage brokering, being an attorney, being a CFO of a real estate investment company. Somebody is spending all his time in real estate, but he’s an employee of a business that happens to be involved in real estate or claiming hours in an activity in which somebody didn’t materially participate. If somebody had across real estate activities 750 hours, however, some of those hours were in activity in which they were limited partners, then those hours would not count. Not every hour spent in a real estate activity will count towards the 750. That’s where we’re seeing the pitfalls.
I would have guessed that Airbnb would have qualified as real estate activity but you’re right, it’s a business. It’s like running a hotel.
There are so many real estate taxes. It’s exciting because there are so many nuances to it. Airbnb is something people think real estate. It truly is a real estate investment to an extent, but the tax code treats it completely differently.
Can it be taken retroactively? Is that a status you can claim this year for last year? If 2018 could be argued that I spent 750 hours?
The trouble is that you can’t. The IRS, a lot of the stuff that they get people on are technicalities. If you don’t claim it then you lose it. It’s a shame when they do something. We understand our tax laws and we want to be law abiding citizens and maximize our tax deductions legally. Unfortunately, there are so many instances in which you met the substance of what the IRS wants, but you didn’t check the right box and you lose it.
The answer is no, you can’t take it retroactively. For everybody reading this and they find this intriguing and fascinating and it’s something that they’re going to look into and research more in an effort to become a real estate professional, but they’re not now. What are the alternatives for people to maximize their tax deductions now? I know we touched upon this before we started the interview. I’m going to hand the baton over to you and let you take it in the direction you want to go. I’m not exactly sure what to ask you about it in order to help those people who are not real estate pros now.
The restriction is unclaiming passive losses against active income. The best thing obviously is have more passive income. That’s an easy one. If you’re investing in real estate and you intend to continue investing in real estate, then your losses will be able to offset income. What will happen is, the way it plays out, the losses tend to happen in the early years of investment. That’s where you’re likely to have your passive loss and the reason for that are many folds. Whether you’re using cost segregation or not, over time, you’re going to be raising your rents. You’re going to be doing a reposition. You’re going to be renovating, some value add. Inflation is going to be raising your rents, but your expenses stay flat.
That’s the beauty of the real estate. It keeps up with inflation because you can raise your rents with inflation, but you don’t have to rebuild the house because of inflation. Over time, as a result of the decrease in expenses and the increase in rents, you’re going to start showing income. It’s in the early years that you’re going to have that loss. If you buy a property now, you may have a loss for the next three years. Then in year four, you’re going to have to start showing taxable income and you’re not going to have anything to shield that. If you buy another property next year, that’s going to run your losses for another three years, potentially paper losses. That will shield the income that the prior property begins to keep off. If you’re gradually accumulating portfolio, your subsequent purchases will offset the taxable income that you start showing from the proceeding purchases. It’s thinking about laddering your real estate acquisitions so that your subsequent acquisitions shield the income that your prior assets start to show.
The simple point you’re making is to just keep buying real estate and keep investing.
That’s the way to say it. Real estate is great and it gets better as you increase your holdings. The more you invest, the better it gets. That’s really the bottom line. The other thing to think about is it’s good to put into perspective the tax benefits of real estate. Real estate is a tax efficient investment because of depreciation. However, many people get excited. They think real estate is the perfect thing for me because it’s going to offset my high income for my W2. For many people, that’s not true. That’s a misconception. It has the benefit of shielding its own income in the early years. The depreciation will shield its own income from taxation, but as you get further on in the investment, it will show taxable income. Real estate can be tax efficient, but it’s not tax-free. For those people may be worth considering investing within a Checkbook 401(k) or Checkbook IRA, it will completely shield the income in many instances. Especially the Checkbook 401(k), that will completely shield the investment from any taxation.
I think we need to do a separate episode on that because I already know that’s a big topic. Give us a 40,000-foot answer to the question of how that works and why it would make it fully tax efficient just so we don’t leave this massive cliffhanger on this episode.
The retirement accounts which so many of us are familiar with and we’ll have them at large brokerages or a local bank. People think IRA, 401(k) and instantaneously associate that with mutual funds and some mutual fund menu that you can invest in. From the perspective of the tax code, you can invest in about anything and certainly invest in real estate. IRAs and 401(k)s can be invested in real estate. For some people, that’s a great strategy but it’s not for everybody. Just like your IRAs and 401(k)s are tax protected when they invest in the stock market, their tax is shielded when they invest in real estate. If you have real estate that is cashflowing and it’s showing in taxable income. If it’s inside of a tax-sheltered account, it’s completely protected. That’s what this is all about. Putting real estate assets into tax-sheltered accounts and making them tax-free.
Do you want to make a quick comment about the comment I made before we started about putting real estate in any kind of self-directed vehicle, where you lose the depreciation that would normally flow through to your personal tax return? Being in a 401(k) or an IRA, you essentially build a fence around it and you trap it there.
Where I think it’s best made is if somebody who’s looking to have diversified investments and they’re going to have certain investments that have favorable tax attributes and certain investments that have less favorable tax attributes. The ones that you want to put into your IRA or 401(k) are the ones that have the least favorable inherent tax attributes because they need the most shielding. With regards to using those losses, if people are not real estate professionals or they’re not having substantial real estate holdings and success in real estate investments, those losses are not going to benefit. They’re not going to offset their W2. Real estate itself will eventually have taxable income and it will still benefit from being shielded within an IRA or 401(k). I think every investor has a different profile.
For the real estate professional, the most ideal investments for them may not be holding real estate inside of a 401(k). Unless because of their experience and their real estate skills and talents, they were able to get such huge returns on real estate. They want to be concentrated in real estate, then they should still do that inside of the 401(k). For others, we would say in the 401(k), if you’re a real estate pro, do a secured private lending. Be the lender on a real estate deal because private lending has no tax shield and that benefits from the IRA. If somebody is not a real estate pro, they’re not going to get the benefits of the losses anyway. It’s definitely a stronger consideration for them.
Topics like this can go on forever. They’re very interesting. I know people find them interesting as well because everybody’s looking for ways to increase their income and decrease the taxes they pay on that income. There are so many nuances and techniques and vehicles and whatnot. I know you talk a lot about that. I think the best thing for us to do, Bernard, is maybe having you on again with a different topic. Maybe on the self-directed, Checkbook control 401(k)s and other topics like that. For now, let me thank you for your time. Tell our audience how they can find you and get more information about you, your company, your services.
It’s been great to be on the show. The best place to find out more about us is at 401KCheckbook.com or at AgentFinancial.com. There are multiple ways to which you can contact us at those websites and we look forward to hearing any questions.
Bernard, thanks again for taking your time. This has been very informative and I look forward to having you back on.
I’m looking forward as well. Thank you, Marco.
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