Hey everyone, and welcome to Passive Real Estate Investing. I’m Melissa Nash, your guest host, jumping in for now. Let’s dive in. Welcome to the show once again, Aaron Chapman. And for those listening today that do not know who he is, Aaron, can you please take a second and let our listeners know a little bit about who you are and why I have asked you on the show so many times.
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Well, for one, I’m probably the guy, the name you’ll hear on this show more often than the host themselves. So there is that. I’ve been blessed to be part of this show, probably, oh, maybe 10 episodes now, if not more, and a co-host on one. So I’ve been at what I do, which I help people finance, investment, real estate, and it’s not just finance, the investment in real estate. It’s help you set up and strategize and structure how to become a real estate investor. How to build out your, your portfolio with, with people such as Melissa. They’re helping you on the vetting out the real estate itself and how to do it in a way that you, you can build that, that armored equity, if you will, and that the and really have something you can hand on to generations and still stay bankable.
Too often folks will consult an attorney for one perspective, consult an accountant for another perspective, consult their their real estate contacts for another perspective, and then the lender. And they wonder why the lender can’t get the loan done because they built all these rather intricate systems. Well, the more complicated your life becomes, the more complicated your banking, banking system becomes, or banking situation becomes. And we help ensure that that is not a problem. We’ve been lending to, to folks again since since I’ve been here since 97, lending to investors since 2001. I’m a real estate investor myself since 2001, I not only, you know, went through the cycles leading up to 2008, weathered the 2008 crash within my business as well as a personal crash that put me in a wheelchair, took my memory from me, took everything really from me.
And I went to a, from a positive net worth in several million dollars to a negative net worth of 1.5 million credit score down to four 60. Had to crawl back from all that get back into real estate investing in 2016 and being able to successfully rebuild a, a, a portfolio, rebuild a business, make contacts all over the place such as Melissa and others, and then be able to help build, build my family trust that never existed in the history of my family that I’m aware of and holding companies and other entities. And we hold assets all over the country. And I’ve had ownership interest in over 200 doors, <affirmative>.
So what you’re saying, Aaron, is that you’re walking the talk that, that that’s kind of the, the saying, right? You’re not just a lender that’s out there saying, Hey, you know, here’s an interest rate and yes, we can get you this loan. You are actually experienced by actually doing what we want everybody else to be able to do as well.
You can definitely say that is a fact. I definitely do what I preach and I, and if, if it goes to hell and things, people get hurt, I’m gonna get hurt too. But I have seen where a lot of people have made mistakes in their business where a lot of people have been very successful in their real estate investment business and other aspects. And I get to share that data with you instead of you having to go through it on your own and figure it out for yourself. I’m of the mindset I really, truly believe the rising tide raises, rises, raises all boats, and it shouldn’t be certain people getting wealthy while others are getting taken advantage of. We live in a space today where the average person is trying to be kept from capitalizing what’s happening on the market. The average person is going to see massive expense continuing to go up while they are left, what seems to be holding the bag or stuck, but they don’t understand that leverage and leveraging properly can become the greatest asset in your deal. They have been taught to fear debt. They have been taught to think of leverage as debt when the wealthy use leverage to continue to expand their wealth and their holdings and to take advantage of the markets.
That, that is such a perfect segue, Aaron, because I was actually speaking to a client this week and they’re doing a 1031 exchange. They are selling a property and they need to exchange into a lot more properties. It’s a pretty good size, 1031 exchange. And the first thing that they said is, we don’t want debt. We’re afraid of debt. And so I said, okay, first of all, without going into the whole Dave Ramsey situation here, I kind of ran through two different scenarios and I said, okay, this is a portfolio and this is what it could look like if we use these funds just cash. And then here’s the second version of the portfolio. If we actually leveraged it strategically and strategically means working with a lender such as yourself, working with the 10 31 exchange company and putting it together. ’cause There are rules and there are things that have to happen with a 1031 exchange and messing around with the numbers.
One property, you might put 50% down one property, you might put 20% down. Heck, we even have a scenario in there where one property, they might put 60% down just because we have to mess with the math and tweak it so that we use it all up in the most strategic way. And so she was like, please walk me through this, this leverage thing that you keep saying is good. I don’t understand. Why do the returns keep going up higher when I’m using leverage? So Aaron, that kind of, I would love for you to kind of answer that for everybody here today. And then also one thing that I really wanna touch on before I forget is a couple of interviews ago we kind of touched on something really quickly and I said, I would come back and I would ask you about it again in another episode. And you said lenders or you know, the banks who are lending the money for investment properties get the short end of the stick. So I want to come back and focus on that as well. But so can you kind of wrap this in together for me and kind of help our listeners out?
They do actually go very, very well together. And let me start off, I know we touched on the man’s name, David Ramsey, and I know a lot of people say, oh, he doesn’t understand this stuff. He, they preach against it. But let me, let me just let you know, he’s one of the smartest, some out there when it comes to these kind of things. And the man uses leverage. So he knows how to use leverage, but he’s also speaking to a very, very large, broad audience. He’s got one of the biggest audiences on the planet when you talk about people that don’t understand how to use money. So since the majority of the people don’t know how to use money, he has a monster audience. You and me, Melissa, we’re talking to the few, the very, very, very small few that are understanding how to use money but just don’t understand how to put it to work.
Or they want to understand how to use money and how to put it to work, but are just trying to find that connection with somebody to help ’em get there. Where Dave’s easy, it’s like, Hey, just do this and stay in the, stay in the, in a rut and it works out well for you in the end. And it does, if your goals are to stay in that space. The goals of this individual we’re just talking about, say, Hey, I really wanna understand how leverage makes me wealthy and how is that possible? It doesn’t make sense to me. Well, let’s do a quick equation. I love to do math because math is, is is the probably the most perfect language there is. So, and, and I hated math, just so I can tell you guys, I I, I cheated my off to get that c in high school so I didn’t have to do any more math.
Now it has become my big friend. I don’t have to take high school math. I’d use, use more complicated math, which can also be very simple math to illustrate how this kind of thing works for you. So let’s say a person has a hundred thousand dollars just for instance, and they’re gonna buy some investment properties and they hear that leverage is bad, right? They don’t, they don’t, they have a hard time with that. They think that leverage is debt. So they’re gonna spend their a hundred thousand dollars on a property and they’re gonna see their return on investment, right? Buy a hundred thousand dollars property renting for say, you know, say $900 a month or let’s say a thousand. Let’s just, let’s just round it up to that thousand after taxes, insurance expenses. They’re probably making six to $650 a month. Clear profit that seem about right to you, Melissa.
Yep. Yep.
Absolutely. So six to $650 a month in profit. So when we do the math on that six to six 50, let’s say it’s six 50, let’s be conservative. So $650 a month have 12 months, you’re looking at $7,800 in revenue. Well, you made $7,800 that year, but you spent a hundred thousand dollars to get that $7,800. You’re making 7.8% on your money. Is that a pretty good return?
Hey, that’s not too bad.
Not too bad. 7.8%
Better, better than the bank.
Better than the bank is doing. And then your property is appreciated. Two point a half percent, right? Well that’s two point a half percent on 100,000, which is equal to $2,500. That’s exactly 2.5% where you add that 7.8% plus the 2.5%, you’re making 10.3% on your money, not a bad gig, right? We can all agree that that’s not bad. Now let’s take that $700,000 and let’s divide it into three transactions of a hundred thousand a piece. Putting 20% down plus costs. So we’re gonna say you got three house, actually, you can make that work into four. If you negotiate a property, you put 25,000 into a, into a house. It may not be exactly that, but you can negotiate with sellers in today’s market and make that happen. So let’s say you’re ba you’re putting $25,000 per house, you buy four houses with the exact same a hundred thousand dollars.
Now it’s 20% down, $20,000 plus five grand in cost. You’ve negotiated for some of your costs to be covered so that we can make that work. You’re taking whatever the interest rate is today. So now you’ve got a payment on the house. So if you’re talking about a mortgage on this a hundred thousand dollars house, you’re still making a thousand dollars a month in rent. So you’ve got a mortgage of $80,000 and let’s say you’re looking at somewhere in the mid to high sevens. And then you’re gonna look at, I’m just guessing at this, that’s a principle payment of $566 a month principle and interest payment. So you still have the, the other expenses where you’re at, you know, say that same 300 and was it 350 bucks? So let me see here. ’cause We’re gonna factor in all of that. I’m sitting here on the calculator, guys.
So your cashflow on that particular, you’re at $916 in total revenue on this thing here is what your cashflow is gonna give you. So your cashflow is gonna end up at 84 bucks. Not sexy whatsoever, right? Nobody’s, nobody’s happy about $84 cashflow. So, but that’s still, you’re getting $84 cash flow. It’s positive. So you got four properties doing $84 cash flow. So you look at $336 a month, right? So there’s your cashflow 3 36, that 3.36%, not something that’s very, very interesting to you. Like I don’t see why this is a good thing. He’s not convincing me yet. But you’re also getting that, that two point a half percent increase. So at two point half percent, but you invested 2.5%, which is $2,500 on the same, a hundred thousand is tied over four properties. So that is actually $10,000 that you’re making in appreciation on that. So that’s equal to another 10%. So now you’re at 10% on your money there. And, but then you’ve invested over th those, those four properties, you’ve got $80,000 loans. So those 80,000 loans, that’s four four $80,000 loans, that’s $320,000 you’ve got in leverage.
Oh wait, hold on. Hold, hold on, Aaron, I’m running the math on this and I’m confused. I just put in like a hundred thousand dollars property a thousand dollars a month rent, and I put 20% down with a management fee of 10%. I’m actually showing this property is cash flowing $230 a month. And I came up with a little bit different math than you.
You’re gonna come up with different math because I’m beating it up and I’m beating it up hard. So what I wanna do is I wanted to be consistent with the math. So with the math that I started out with, I started out with us having a, putting a hundred thousand dollars down, a hundred percent buying a property for a hundred thousand dollars, not factoring any really cost into it. So I’m actually being too conservative with that number. But they invested a hundred thousand dollars, they’re making a thousand dollars a month in rent, and they were getting $650 a month in cash flow. So that means they had $350 a month in expenses. So that’s where I came up with that number. So with the $350 a month in expenses plus their, their principal and interest payment, principal interest tax and insurance payment, all that kind of stuff I was coming up with the $84 a month in cashflow for the le for a single leverage property to match up with where they would get $650 in cashflow, paying cash for the property,
Okay? And you’re including like all the extra reserves and maintenance and vacancy and you’re just kind, okay, got it, got it, got it.
Everything. I’m throwing it all out there. I’m trying to match ’em dollar for dollar. If I’m saying you can make $650 a month paying cash for a house, but only $84 a month on four different houses, I want to be consistent in what money was going out. So that’s why I couldn’t come up with that. Yes, perfect. If you run your numbers, you’re like, Aaron, you’re way too conservative, but I wanna show how powerful this is to use leverage. So you’re making $84 a month in cashflow which is 3.36%. You’re getting 10% on your money and the appreciation of the property, because the properties are appreciating at two and a 5%, that’s 2.5% of the total value of the home. So that’s $2,500, but you only invested 25,000. So now all of a sudden you’re making 10% on your investment, 25,000 when you bought one house, you invested a hundred thousand. When you buy four houses, you’re, you’re investing 25,000 per house, which is still a hundred thousand dollars. But each house is appreciating at 2,500, that’s 10 times four houses, that’s $10,000, which is equivalent to 10% on your investment of a hundred thousand dollars. So same a hundred thousand spent, but now you’re making 10% on your money instead of two and a half percent on your money. Is that that math jiving? Yep.
Yep. That totally makes sense. I’m following.
Now let’s get into the amortization of the loan. So now Melissa, if you did your job, which working with you, people tend to, ’cause they get trained on how to do this and they’ve got you as a resource to help them through their business. If they’ve bought the right property, it stays reasonably rented the entire time they own it. Who pays off the $80,000 loan?
The tenant?
The tenant. So over the $80,000 loan, and this is four $80,000 loans. So you multiply that times four, that’s $320,000 that you have in leverage on your a hundred thousand dollars investment. Well, if you divide that 320,000 over 30 years, you’re going to get $10,666 and 66 cents per year is being paid down in your behalf, averaged over to the 30 year mortgages. Well, you divide that into your a hundred thousand invested and you’re gonna find you’re making another 10.6%. You add the 10% that you’re getting on the appreciation of 2.5% on the total portfolio, you’re now at 20.6%. And then you add the 3.36%, now you’re at 23.36% versus what did we say you were making before? Just a little over 10%. Yeah,
Exactly.
You’re doubling your total growth on your investment because you leveraged it. Now here’s where it gets really amazing what’s happening to the dollars value with inflation. And this also piggybacks into the question we talked about earlier.
Well, we know the US dollar is going down every single year, what the actual number is. I mean, the government gives us one number, but you know, we’ve been led to believe it could possibly be a lot more.
We do know it’s double digits, the inflation number, you know, they’re saying, Hey, inflation, on what we’re looking at, it’s only going up two point half percent, but still going up, right? It’s two and a half. They’re saying right now it’s like two point half percent. Last year is over three. The year before four, we reached as high as nine according to this CPI over the last few years. But it’s still going up. It’s not like it’s going backwards. It’s not like the dollar’s getting stronger. It’s always losing ground. In reality, when you look at a person spends money on it, on, on a day-to-day basis, all the money that’s going out, not just the goods and services that are being tracked by the government. Everything you’re looking at double digits as far as the percentage is concerned. The dollar has eroded so much over the years.
In fact, they, they, they’re speculation it’s lost, you know, more than a hundred percent of its buying power since they put together the Federal Reserve Act. So not to get down that rabbit hole, but we do know the dollar’s losing value. Now, when we take a look at a way of being able to estimate what the last 30 years has done, because I want people to look at this from a 30 year perspective. If you’re leveraging a property, you wanna leverage it for 30, you have great control over your, your business. When it’s leveraged for 30, you’re not forced to have to refinance. You know, you, you only refinance if it makes sense. You’re not forced to have to adjust because the market’s adjusting and the rates are adjusting. You only adjust when you feel it’s necessary to adjust. So you’ve leveraged, you’ve locked in that 30 year fixed control of your assets.
And in doing that, we go backwards 30 years. Right now it’s 2025. I’m going almost 31 years ago. I can remember the very first time I walked into a Taco Bell in Moses Lake, Washington. And I was able to buy two country tacos, two bean burritos, and a drink for a dollar 99 off their menu. And I may have talked about this with you before. Well, you fast forward to exactly 30 years later, which was the end of 2024. And I drove through a drive-through with my daughter and she ordered those things and we paid just shy of $14. That was an 800% swing in the buying power of the US dollar. What does that mean for the real estate investor? Why is that a thing to understand? That means every month you are making a payment to the bank with your tenant’s money. You’re collecting money from the tenant, you are raising rents year over year, increasing your cashflow every time that you raise rents, but you’re paying the same dollar amount to the bank and every time they take a payment from you, they’re actually accepting a little bit less and a little bit less and a little bit less.
So when we look at this specific scenario, we’re just talking about on this deal here, when you’re, when you’re borrowing $80,000 at today’s interest rates and you’re fast forwarding to 2055, when you finally pay this off, you may have paid with the US dollar, actual US dollars leaving your hand, 200, 3,844 US dollars left your hands to pay that 80,000 back. That’s what filtered through you to the bank from your tenant. But the value, the actual cumulative value of those dollars as they pass through your hands, as you are raising rents, as property values are going up as you’re getting tax deductions, the actual value of those are equivalent to $77,168 today. So you bought it today, but you gave them back over time, $77,000. You used the bank’s money or some investment firm or hedge FundWare that filtered it through the bank for you to take it by an asset for you that appreciated at 10% per year when given the, how much you invested in it that you got to get.
What was the other 10% we have, we had, we have your cash flows that were going up, you have your appreciation, you have your amortization, all these things were going up and you’re actually giving less money back to the bank. You’re making more money on that money. So when you consider everything plus the tax deductions that you receive, if you’re properly structured, the bank is losing significantly while you are gaining, you look at the bank as a business partner, if you and I went into business, Melissa, and we bought an asset for a hundred thousand dollars and I put in $20,000, you put in $80,000, what percentage of ownership do you expect to have?
Well, I mean, <laugh> in the scenario you’re running, I know exactly what you’re talking about, but yeah, if I was going into business with you and I put up 80%, I’d be like, Hey guys, I want 80% of the profits. I want 80% of the return. I want 80% of everything.
You want 80% of the ownership, 80%, yeah, 80% of revenue. You’re the managing partner, all that stuff. But we have a bank that’s willing to put up 80% and it says, Hey, give me 7.5% of the 80% plus regular payoffs over a 30 year period. I will willingly divest out of the asset over a 30 year window. Would that be a good deal for you as a business person to make that deal with me? You
Know what, when you structure it like that, that is an insane deal. Like you would be crazy in this scenario to not wanna go into business with me where I’m saying that to you, and it’s interesting, I’ve never put it in that perspective of, I always look at it as, you know, the banking world and the lending world, but when you look at it, this is a business, and we always talk about structuring this as a business. The lender is a business partner and they’re sitting there saying, Hey, we’re only gonna take 7.5% of this business. We will fund it 80% and over the next 30 years, we will slowly take less and less and less. Like that’s crazy. Is that what you’re, am I, am I hearing this right? Am I understanding this correctly?
That’s exactly what I’m saying. And when you flip it around, and if anybody approached you with that deal, said, I want you to put up 80% of the capital, I’ll manage it. I will, I will collect the, the rents and all kinda stuff, but I’m only going to give you seven and a half percent of your 80% on top of regular, regular interval payments for 30 years to pay you back. But I get to keep everything else and I keep the asset. When you’re paid off, you’re paid off, you’re out, you’ve divested from the business.
Yeah, that’s a pretty good deal. You are getting cash flow in your pocket.
Well,what’s also crazy about that, how long does it take you to get your 25% back? Well,
That’s a good question. I mean, on average, I mean, I’ve kind of run those numbers. I mean, obviously it, it depends on the deal, but five to six years you usually get your money back. Yeah.
So you, it takes the bank 30 years to get their money back, right? Well, actually probably faster than that’s probably gonna take them probably somewhere in the range of about 15 to 18 years to get their money back. But then they’re making some, that’s where they’re making their interest, but it’s on the backend where there’s less value in the dollar. You’re getting yours that we, we just did the numbers at 23%. Well, if you’re taking a hundred thousand, you divided it by, by 23, you’re making your money in 4.3 years, basically.
Yeah. So that’s where <laugh>, that comment that you made the bank is getting the short end of the stick. You just kind of showed it.
Extremely short, extremely short end of the stick. If the banking industry, when it as business partners, they would kill us all and we had no, none of us would be involved in this. That’s why I keep telling everybody, when you, when you run from leverage and you’re scared from leverage, you are literally being, you’re, you’re basically being forced into being poor is really what you’re
Doing. Right, right. Well, and you know, and, and thank you again Aaron for kind of breaking this down for us because sometimes we all need to be whacked over the head a little bit and just reminded, this is not stuff that we are taught. This is stuff that we have to go and we have to seek it out. And you know, again, like back to the Dave Ramsey thing is so many of us, at least my generation grew up hearing his voice just pounding that debt is bad, debt is bad, debt is bad. And so we have to reteach people what is debt? And in fact, you know, one thing that I’ve learned as a real estate investor is another thing that people ask about is, well, if I’m buying all these rental properties, then that’s debt. That’s debt. And so my debt to income ratio is actually going, going up and up and up and up, and then I’m not gonna qualify for any more properties. So can you please break that down for us really quickly before we let you go today?
So that is also a very, very interesting perspective. When people look at that, say, I’m just adding, just adding debt to my balance sheet and I just keep having all this debt. But they don’t, they failed to look at the fact that they have an asset to offset it, number one. The other is the, the asset is generating revenue. Now, when you’re talking about a mortgage itself or a, or a home loan or home financing, however you wanna define it, the only time is it’s debt is when it’s your house that is debt because you are solely responsible for repaying it. Now, yes, you have an asset, but is that asset generating revenue for you? Probably not unless you have an A DU or you live in a multi-unit and you’re renting out the other units, that asset, if it’s solely for you and your family, that asset is nothing but debt and expense for you.
You can’t call anybody and say, Hey, come fix the ac, it broke and they pay for it. You gotta pay for it. All that maintenance, all those things. And everybody who has told you, Hey, it’s an American dream to own a home and all this stuff, that’s where they’re taking from you. That’s the greatest expense you have. Now, do we, do I own home that my own home, yes, I live in a house, I have a deed to the trust, I rent the, i i I take other steps where I’m actually a tenant to my trust, but that’s a whole other conversation, but it’s still expense on me. That is debt. Now when you’re talking about a property that I rent out, that I took somebody else’s money, and I can show that there’s money coming in from a tenant that covers the the payment plus the taxes plus the insurance, plus the, the, the upkeep and the maintenance on the property and any, any vacancies on the property, I’m still able to pull capital out of it that there is a full asset.
Because when you go in to get your debt to income ratio calculated, if your lender cannot calculate out, out for you and show you that you are a still a DA debt, a debt ratio positive, then your lender doesn’t know what they’re doing and they don’t understand it. And there’s a lot of lenders that do not understand this. They do see it as debt because they don’t understand what they’re staring at. This comes to another point. Your lender should not be an expense to you and it should be not be something you’re shopping when you’re dealing with lenders. It’s amazing to me how much people will hunt, hunt, hunt, hunt, hunt all over the internet for the cheapest rate and think that that’s what differentiates a lender. But yet they will go and close on a deal they should have never touched. They will get involved in it.
Loan they should have never gotten because they were sold on something that seemed really, really sexy at the time, but actually puts ’em in a really bad spot. They also set up their business incorrectly. That makes them a, they’re not able to squeeze or develop the best options for their real estate investment portfolio and actually put their, their, their future in jeopardy. There’s a lot of people that walked away from real estate investing because they had the wrong lender and the wrong people working with them. Treat your lender as also a consultant. If they can’t give you good solid data to work off of, you need to walk away regardless of how cheap they are. Because cheap is one thi is basically what it’s worth. Nothing. Now when you’re talking about somebody who is somewhat within the market and we’re well, well within the market as far as our costs and our rates we’re very competitive, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to even stay in business.
We have to stay competitive. That’s the barrier to entry. But then on top of that, you have all this information that we can give you, all the people you can tap into that we are connected with all the things that we can analyze and help you really make the proper decisions for you. You get a consultant for free because the loan is the only way we make the revenue. Everything else you’re getting as just added benefit. Think of it as being the CEO of your, your real estate investment business. You have a CFO, A-C-O-O-A-C-I-O, you have all these people you’re adding in there, there has any business ever been successful to put executives or consultants or you know, other members of your board at there because they’re willing to take minimum wage. If you can negotiate them down to minimum wage and they can’t bring any expertise to it, then you have the wrong person in there.
So you have to consider the right people in there to avoid problems that are going to come up and and destroy your business. I know the big thing that people sell on is cashflow. Cash flow, cash flow. But the place to get the best cash flow sometimes is the ones that cost you the most to retain the asset and you’re really not making any cash flow. It looks great on paper the first few months until you have a term and then you have to pay for that property and then you have to do all the maintenance on that property. And sometimes that property costs you more than what you ever made on it and you lose all that cashflow. What looks sexy on paper is literally destructive in practical application.
Oh my goodness, Aaron, so many amazing golden nuggets. Just to kind of wrap up what you said there, you guys, you need to be using the right lender who can make your wonderful little assets that you’re buying your rental properties. Truly what they are is they’re little individual businesses and we need to be able to use the right lender who is going to be able to allow you to qualify and requalify and continue building your portfolio and buying more properties. So I love your analogy, you’re working with the chief financial officer. This is your business and we have to run it like a business. So again, thank you so much Aaron. We appreciate having you at here once again for our triple three interviews, <laugh> in a row. There’s just so much to cover with financing and so many myths to break. So again, we appreciate you. Can you tell everybody again where to find you? Well, number one, always, you guys can reach out to us. There’s gonna be a link in the show notes. Connect with us. There’s gonna be a link there. But then you can also reach out to Aaron directly. So Aaron, tell them where they can find you.
Info@Aaronchapman.Com is the best place to email me. And if you wanted to get on my website, it’s just aaronchapman.com. So info@aaronchapman.com or aaronchapman.com. Those will always be there, always be available and we will be there to connect with you. Schedule time to talk with you. I even speak to people’s families to talk about how we set up our trust, how we do our business to make sure that all generations are on board.
Amazing. Thank you again, Aaron. And even though this three part series is over <laugh>, we know it’s not over. We know that you’re gonna be back. So you guys, if you have any questions, especially around this subject, anything in the lending world, quite honestly, anything about real estate investing in general, always send us your questions. And if there are first Aaron specifically, great. We’ll read them on Aaron, we’ll bring ’em back on.
Thank you. It’s always a pleasure to be here and I’ll come back as often as you want me <laugh>.
Thank you, Aaron. All right, see you next time.
Thank you Aaron and Melissa for an episode packed with valuable takeaways. Be sure to contact one of our investment counselors for a free strategy session. If you don’t have an investment counselor, not a problem. Just fill out the form on our website. We will connect you within 24 hours, and you will be in touch with one of our great team members here. Help us spread the word. Leave us a rating and review on iTunes, help share this show with other great like-minded people like you. And once again, thanks for listening. We’ll see you on our next episode.
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