Welcome to another episode of Ask Marco on the Passive Real Estate Investing show. You know, we’ve been getting some really good questions lately, so I grabbed about four, five, maybe six of them here today and I’m gonna go through them as quickly as I can and I’ll take as many as I can. So let’s jump right into it.
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The first question is from Todd. And Todd writes in, he says, Hi Marco, love the show. I am a long distance investor from California. Over the last 20 years, I’ve acquired over 50 doors in Ohio and Texas. These are a combination of single family homes and multi-family buildings. They are worth around $4 million and I owe about $1 million. I’m interested in selling some or all of them and doing a 1031 exchange into a higher value property or properties. What is the best way to accomplish this?
It seems daunting to try to sell all the properties at once. Thank you Todd. Well, Todd, great question. Yes I’m stressing thinking about it as I read your question. It is daunting. It is a task, a monumental task to try and sell 40 doors, or in your case actually 50 doors in an effort to do a tax-deferred exchange, a 1031. So first of all, I will say you are in a great, great position. Congratulations over the last 20 years you’ve amassed a $3 million addition to your net worth. I don’t know what the cash flows are on your properties, but I’m sure you’re probably sitting in a very good position. So congratulations to you. This is what I hope everybody does listening to this show and reading our content and visiting our websites is to create wealth and create passive income and be in a situation like you’re in.
So this problem is a good problem, so congratulations on that. Now here’s your challenge. Doing a 1031 means that you need to be selling all these properties or some of these properties, not necessarily on the same day, but within the same time period. And for those that don’t fully understand a 1031 exchange, it’s essentially a tax-deferred exchange. You need to sell your property within a certain period of time, take those funds through an accommodator, a 1031 exchange company and roll those into newer properties, not as new construction but new to you. So the challenge you have is that you need to identify the new property or the new properties within a 45 day period. That’s not that difficult to do, especially if you’re working with the right people or the right team. The identification piece is not that challenging and 45 days is typically more than sufficient unless you’re in a very, very, very tight market like we have been over the last few years.
It is not so bad right now. We have a lot of inventory and a lot of deal flow. So the identification piece is not that difficult. The challenge is during that period you need to close on that property or those properties you’ve identified in the 45 days in order to stay within the 1031 guidelines. And if you don’t, then the proceeds from your sale become taxable. You are not deferring the capital gains taxes. So the real challenge in my opinion is in selling your properties, multiple properties, plural within that time period to be able to close in 120 days, or excuse me, 180 days. So is it possible? Yes. Have people done it? Yes, we’ve worked with investors and clients that have had multiple properties that they’ve needed to sell and take the proceeds and roll those into newly identified properties. The challenge on your end is doing that with the number of doors that you’re trying to sell.
So it may make sense for you to break that 50 doors down into smaller chunks unless you’re trying to go for a much larger property with a higher property value and a larger down payment and take those 40, 50 doors, whatever you’re planning to sell and roll all the sales proceeds into that 1031. Now, one thing you might want to consider is, hypothetically speaking, if you wanna sell all 50 doors, maybe put all 50 on the market and price them right and do the sale properly, meaning that you’re not trying to be overly aggressive and squeeze every single dollar out of that sale. If you can sell as many as you can within a certain time period, while at the same time having identified a property that you plan to purchase and you are planning to sell X number of those 50 doors within a certain period of time to take the proceeds and roll them into that property, then you’ll be able to do this successfully.
If you miss, meaning you don’t sell enough of those doors that you own in a short enough period of time to have the proceeds available to roll them into that new property, then you might be caught short. And the challenge here now is if you’ve identified a property and you’re now outside that initial 45 day identification period, you can’t change your mind. You’re still stuck having to go forward closing on that property. Now it’s not that big of a deal. If you have available liquid cash or capital to put towards it in addition to the proceeds you get from the 1031 exchange, then you can just make up what you’re short in that down payment, whatever size that may be for that newer, larger property or set of properties that you’re doing the 1031 exchange into. Hopefully that made sense. So the exchange is completed in 180 days, not 45 days, plus the 180 days.
Just kind of a side note, it’s not the addition of the 45 days and 180, 180 starts from the day you get the proceeds from the sale. So one more suggestion or tip to look into, but before I say what that is, I just need you to think through how many of those doors you want to sell, where they’re located. Consider what the market is like in terms of sales velocity and the amount of inventory in those markets that you’re in the neighborhoods, because that will tell you how quickly you can potentially sell those properties. If you price them right, price them at market, you don’t need to give them away, you need to price them just right. If it’s a very aggressive sales market seller’s market, you might be able to just get more than your fair market value on that property. But here’s an alternative strategy.
I have not personally done a deferred sales trust or what’s known as a DST for short, but the DST has no time limits it. It effectively allows you to sell your properties. The proceeds go into a trust, you don’t pull those proceeds out of the trust so you are not personally taxed on them. And then you can reinvest the proceeds from the sale of your 50 properties or 50 doors into new property within that trust. This is a way to get around the capital gains tax that you would be liable for in the sale of those properties. But you have to do it within the framework of a trust and the proceeds have to stay in a trust no different than doing a 1031 exchange where all the proceeds from the sales are put into a binding trust through a 1031 accommodator. Now if you wanna learn more about the DST or also known as the Deferred Sales Trust, listen to episode number 375.
I did that interview on March 22nd, or at least it was released on March 22nd of this year, 2022. You’ll learn a lot more about it and Brett is the person who I interviewed. However, there are other companies that do the same type of thing, but that’s just another option for you to look into. It might be an alternative if you’re trying to do a lot of doors at one time and you might be fighting against that 180 day time limit that you need to close with the 1031 exchange. Okay, Todd, I hope that helps. I know I can get deeper into this, but I want to keep it as simple as possible.
Next question from Adrian. He says, Hi Marco, it’s Adrian from Dallas. First I just wanted to thank you for everything you do to help people learn about real estate investing. Well you’re welcome. Your podcast has opened up Pandora’s box for my wife and I and we are absorbing all the knowledge we can before making our first real estate investment. Well congratulations. That’s great. A little background here. We have both owned properties before in our prior marriages, but we are renting right now mainly because we are are not sure where we want to ultimately settle down at. I want to start buying properties in the meantime so that we can start building our portfolio. My question is, would you recommend buying a primary residence first before purchasing an investment property? Okay, Adrian, good question. I’ve had this question, I don’t think all that long ago was probably earlier this year. I don’t remember exactly what I said on that episode, but basically it’s this first and foremost purchasing a home, not so much a house, but a place that you live on day to day.
Your castle essentially is for most people an emotional purchase. They get wrapped up in it in so many different ways from the colors of the paint to the floor plan, the layout, the neighbors, you name it. So it always becomes an emotional decision as much as it can be a logical decision. But for most people, and I think this is also more so true for women than it is for men, it definitely becomes an emotional decision. So it’s nice to say, this is my home that I’m not renting and and be a homeowner. But you have to understand that you don’t need to be a homeowner right away. You can defer that decision down the road when you’re in a better position in terms of finances or in terms of deciding on where you want to live. Is it close to friends and family? So these are the things you’re gonna struggle with the emotional side of it versus the logical or financial side of it.
But you put those things aside and as a very, very general rule, I tend to say defer ownership in lieu of building a real estate portfolio if you can. And certainly when it makes sense for you too. Now, having said that, you know, if you really want home ownership, you can do both of them at the same time because if you qualify for FHA financing, you can purchase a principal residence for as little as 3.5% down. And there’s also a, a way to qualify a 10% down. So outside of conventional financing, which is 20% down, you can still get into home ownership for as little as 3.5%. I’ll let you do your research on this, but you need to fall within the, the qualification criteria for an FHA loan, but it’s designed for home ownership. Now, if you have a lot of investment capital, you can do both.
You can purchase your own home When you decide ultimately where you wanna live, you can do that for 20%, 10%, three and a half percent down. It just depends At the same time, again, if you have enough capital that you’re working with, you can use that as down payment or down payments towards investment properties in one or more markets. I just don’t know what you’re working with. If you’re working with a hundred thousand dollars, it’s different than you if you’re working with half a million dollars or if you’re working with $50,000. So ultimately I think having a wide real estate portfolio, whether that includes your principal residence or not, gives you the opportunity to build wealth, grow that equity in each of those properties immediately and over time, while at the same time as the years go by, you build up that cash flow that grows from the property slow in the beginning accelerates over time.
But the key thing is you want to be on the equity train and if you own property, the more property you own over time, the more equity you’re gonna build. And it looks like it. It’s slow in the beginning, but this is why I always say, you know, start investing in real estate as early as you can, as quickly as you can build a portfolio, let the equity grow. Cash flows will go along with that. And then when you are in a comfortable position where you know where you wanna live and you have the down payment for your principal residence, then jump into home ownership. And you also last but not least, have to consider the location where you’re living. If you’re living in coastal California, the numbers are gonna be a little bit different than if you’re living in the Midwest or in Dallas in your case because in some markets, in some cases and it’s actually cheaper to rent, you’ll get more square footage, more bang for the buck if you will, more house while you’re renting than it you would if as if you were purchasing.
So I’m not sure if I explained that correctly, but basically the cost or the price per square foot varies from market to market. And so you can actually be further ahead renting in some markets than you would be purchasing because the larger down payment could be put towards purchasing one or more rental properties and and that just puts your money to work rather than putting it into a home that you have to still pay principal interest, tax, insurance, repairs and maintenance and take on all the responsibility of home ownership versus just renting a place that you can simply pay rent and live your life while you’re investing in other markets where you’re building wealth. Anyway, Adrian, I hope that makes sense. If not, reach out to me or my team.
Next question Johnny. Johnny says, Hello Marco. Thanks for your guidance and wisdom on real estate. You’re very welcome. When it comes to teams, where does one find an acquisition’s team member, meaning both a person or a company? Thanks. Well Johnny, Simple answer your acquisitions team, at least that’s what I’ve been calling it for a long time, is made up of the people who can provide you deal flow. So whether they are real estate brokers, real estate agents, both locally or online or both wholesalers, turnkey property providers, i e companies like Norada Real Estate Investments here where we can provide you deal flow or even for sale by owners, like owners selling their own properties that are being listed or posted online. Those are all sources of deals or properties, perspective deals, potential properties. But your acquisitions team are the one or more people that you choose to work with because you know or trust them to provide you deals. Deals that meet the criteria that you lay out, whatever you define as your buy box.
So when you know what your buy box is and you start working with agents and local markets or, or online or turnkey providers, whatever that may be, those are the people that you would define as your acquisitions team. So it’s really that simple. You can do the shopping online of course, but if you go to generic websites or general websites like Zillow as an example, that’s really just a platform, a marketplace of sorts where listings from MLS services all around the country are posting properties through a syndicated feed and it’s just aggregating all that data. So ultimately if you’re picking and choosing from that website, you’re really not building a team. You’re really just contacting individual real estate agents and brokers in different parts of the country because it is their listing that they’re posting on a website such as Zillow. So that’s really not building a team, but ultimately if you’re hyper focused on a particular market and sub-market and you get to know some real estate agents within that market because that is where they work, that is their farm, then that person could become one of your team members four properties within that zip code or that area of a particular market. So anyway, if that doesn’t make sense, let me know, but I think that is really this just the long and the short of it.
Okay, next question from Kenneth. He says, Marco, when buying an investment property, I was advised I can purchase up to 10 personally, Is there any disadvantage to doing it this way versus setting up a legal entity to do this? Thanks Ken. So Ken you’re actually confusing two things here. So let me just clarify it for you. The first part of your question here, when buying investment property, I was advised I can purchase up to 10 properties. Okay? What that person is talking about is how many conventional loans you can get every individual that is, that can qualify for financing. Conventional financing can purchase up to 10 properties, meaning you can get up to 10 conventional loans. That doesn’t mean you can’t purchase more property, your financing strategy is gonna have to change, but you can get 10 conventional loans on properties personally per person per credit score.
So that’s what they’re referring to is the financing side of it. Now to your question here, is there any disadvantage in doing it this way versus setting up a legal entity? If you set up a legal entity, it’s not gonna change that 10 cap. You’re still limited to 10 conventional loans regardless of whether you’re purchasing it personally or through an entity like an LLC. And oh by the way, you can’t purchase properties through or using a legal entity if you’re using conventional financing. You still have to qualify for it personally and close on it personally, meaning in your name. Now after the fact, if you want to put it into an entity like an LLC for asset protection purposes, you’re welcome to transfer title, just I would wait a little bit of of time. This is not financial advice, this is just what I see working over the years.
But ultimately you are allowed to hold title in an asset protection vehicle like an LLC, which is a smart move, but that doesn’t change those 10 conventional loans, those are attached to your social security number, meaning they are recorded on your credit report and when you get another loan it’s gonna show up on that credit report and you’re allowed 10 conventional. Beyond that, you’re gonna have to look for other sources of financing, like what they refer to as non-qualified mortgage financing or non qm, which is something that we can offer you as well through Norada Real Estate Funding and there’s no cap there. You can have virtually an unlimited number of mortgage loans and there’s different types of loans that you can get there as well. You can do 5 year arms, 7, 10 year arms, you’ve got 15 and 30 year fixed rate mortgages, interest only mortgages. So you know, there’s all kinds of options for you there. But anyway, that’s the difference. So the 10 refers to conventional financing and the entity does not change that at all. It’s just a vehicle for you to hold title for those properties.
Okay, next question from Efron, I believe is his name. Marco, I turned my previous house into a rental property three years ago. Now I am debating between selling it to take advantage of my tax free gains or keep it as a rental. My loan balance is $325,000 properties. Estimated value is between 625 and 675 based on local real estate appraisal, the property is bringing in $4,000 per month gross income and $2,200 per month net income after expenses. What will make more sense to you and why? Okay, so in trying to decide whether you should sell the property or keep it as a rental, I assume by selling you’re taking the proceeds to invest in additional rental properties.
I don’t assume that you are trying to take your gains tax free to do other things that are non-investment related. So under that assumption as to whether to keep it as a rental or take the proceeds and reinvest it into more real estate, you’re basically looking at this scenario. If you were to refinance this property at let’s say a 66% loan to value, you should be able to refinance at $500,000 and pull out $175,000 in cash out. So with that new mortgage loan, your monthly payment at about 6% interest would be around $3,000 a month. So if you’re grossing $4,000 a month, you’re still gonna net, well, you’re not exactly netting a thousand dollars because you’ve got to factor in taxes and insurance. So it be becomes basically a break even at that point. But you are pulling out $175,000 cash to go and reinvest wherever you want.
So that’s a pretty good chunk of change to invest in additional rental properties. So what you’re doing is you’re widening out your portfolio, you’re building more real estate under your belt to appreciate over time and to start creating additional cash flows. The alternative to this is to sell it. When I say sell it, I mean either sell it outright or do a 1031 exchange. But if you sell it and you are able to sell it at let’s say top dollar 775,000, deduct the loan that you owe at 325,000, you should be able to pull out approximately $400,000 in investible cash, which is roughly about two times as much as doing a refinance on the property. So you know, now you’re kind of toying with the question of should I keep it because you already own it, it’s a probably a good property, probably in a good area it might be worth keeping and you’ll still have $175,000 to play with to invest in additional real estate or do you sell it and do a 1031 exchange or not. But pull out a $400,000 and use that to more than double the amount of real estate you can purchase. You know it, it’s a tough question, but here’s what I’m looking at. If the property is worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $750,000, I don’t know what market you’re in, but I would guess that more than likely your annual rents and rent increases are not going to grow or scale at the same rate as the property value or the property appreciation in the area. See, when you have that property I don’t know what you paid for it, but when you have a property that you’re buying for let’s say 200 or 300,000, your rent to value ratio is gonna be more often than not in line. You’re going to have 1% or something close to 1% of that rent to price ratio. So that $200,000 property might be renting for 2000 a month.
If that property appreciates over time to 300,000, 400,000, the rents are gonna go up over time as well. But they’re not going to go up as much or often as fast they will increase because that’s just typically what happens with inflation, price inflation in the areas. Rents will go up as property values go up, but there becomes a wider and wider gap. And this is the problem we see in coastal markets and expensive markets is the rent to value or rent to price ratios start to drop below 1% to 0.9, 0.8 0.7% until you get to places like Coastal California and other markets like Denver, Washington, DC, Seattle where rent to price ratios are somewhere around 0.5%, 0.4%, that’s fine if you bought a long, long time ago and those RV ratios dropped to that point over time while the equity grew in your property, it doesn’t impact you or affect you, but the financial performance of those investments might be kind of low and that’s where it actually makes sense to sell or pull equity out to reinvest elsewhere where you can get higher cash on cash returns, higher RV ratios, stronger appreciation potential.
And I suspect that’s probably the situation that you have right now where you’ve got a property in the $700,000 range, rents have grown up to $4,000 a month gross. They’ll probably still continue to grow over time over the coming years, 3, 5, 7, 10 years, but they’re not going to get to the point where they’re again at that 1% or close to 1% of the property value. So it’s kind of the law of diminishing returns. If you looked at it as a graph, it would go up more vertically in the beginning and then start to curve and taper off and and become more and more flat as the years go by. Again, this is like a chart if you’re looking at a chart, a graph, so it’s kind of a math question to a large degree, but I would suspect that you might be better off selling the property whether you have, you know, tax advantages already or you do it through a 1031 exchange if that’s not the case.
But you take that 400,000 or so that you can take out of there again tax free and use that to invest in a larger portfolio of properties in a less expensive market where you can get more bank for the buck and have higher rent to value or rent to price ratio metrics on those properties. So you’ve got higher cash on cash returns, but you’re also in growth markets where you’re going to get strong appreciation rates or appreciation potential. So this would be a good conversation to have with one of my investment counselors cuz then they can start to talk about the specifics in terms of where you are located and the other options available in other markets that are showing strong growth where you can now basically jump back on that equity train at a faster speed or faster pace than what you’ve got going on right now. Because obviously you’ve done very well with this property, but it might be at a point where it has matured in terms of price appreciation. But there’s again a lot of variables here so I don’t have enough information to really pencil it out as if it was my decision. So anyway, I hope that helps.
Okay, I’m gonna share one more. This is a little bit of a longer one so I’ll try and read through it quickly. Someone emailed me, Spencer, he said, I need your help. So Spencer writes in and says, Hi Marco, I need your help to know if, if I can do this and how I am a new listener to your podcast. I have been pouring through the episodes to gain as much information as I possibly can as I listen to you talk and share your knowledge and experiences as well as interview others to extract their knowledge and experience.
I am buying what you are preaching. I didn’t know I was a preacher. I am buying what you’re preaching and I am convinced that your strategy is the most effective way for me to change my family’s future. I have heard you say on a number of episodes that educating myself is critically important, but at some point the information is useless if I do not act. That is absolutely true. The process you lay out cannot help me if I do not take action and make the necessary steps to begin. I am sold, I am eager to start. However, I don’t know if I can. Okay, he goes on to say I am 32 years old. I have been married for nine years and we currently live in Salt Lake County, just outside Salt Lake City. We have three young kids. I work in construction management for a commercial general contractor, mostly specializing in building schools and healthcare facilities.
I earn about 70k I understand that your process is is nothing to quote unquote get rich quick and I am not looking to quit my job. It is a great company to work for, but I do want to start now so I can build passive income even if it’s only an extra $200 a month to start as well as work toward a future retirement. Right now I have roughly 7,000 in my 401k. All right? So he goes on to say, as I stated before, I believe what you are preaching, but how do I begin if I have absolutely no cash, no extra cash or savings. I want this so badly for me and my family, but I cannot seem to create a savings buffer, let alone come up with a 20 to 30% down payment for a rental property. I’m gonna keep reading here, but I’m squirming in my chair as I read this cuz I, I so badly want to answer this.
He says, My car is broken down on the side of my house and I cannot seem to get it running. We have about $10,000 in credit card debt. I deliver Amazon packages in my quote unquote spare time as a sort of side hustle to create extra income. But with inflation impacting gas prices and food prices that quote unquote extra money doesn’t really feel like extra. It just helps us survive. Again, I know I cannot change my situation overnight, but I know that if I don’t start somewhere, I will never be able to retire early and create the future I want for my family, a future that I know investing in real estate can provide for me. I’m glad you came to that realization here early on Spencer. So he finishes his email by writing, hopefully I have not overshared with you, but I want to provide enough details so that you could respond in a way that could provide me some direction and help me take the next step.
Do I have any options? Question mark. You always say there is never a bad time to get into real estate and that it is never too late. The best time to start investing in real estate is right now. You yesterday <laugh>. Can you see any way for me to get started right now or do I have to just continue grinding and trying to dig my way out and then come back to real estate investing if I am ever able to get out of the situation I am in. Spencer, thanks for writing in, thanks for opening up and sharing. I know it’s can be a frustrating and difficult situation when you are kind of in a, I hate to use the word rut, but in a situation where you know you can get out of in time but you’re just not there at the moment.
And I think a lot of people, including myself, have been there in the past sometimes multiple times. So it’s not uncommon or unusual. The fact that you’re aware of it is says a lot and obviously you’re thinking about ways to get out of it to get to improve your situation and improve your income, your lifestyle, et cetera. So I applaud you for that. So don’t be frustrated. It might take some time, it’s not gonna happen overnight, but the fact that you’re working on it and thinking about it says a lot. So again, thanks for opening up and sharing your story. I sensed the frustration. You know, at first I was thinking that this would be good to answer on the show and then I kind of changed my mind and now I’m thinking, okay, yeah, you know what? It’s probably worth sharing cuz there’s probably many other people in similar situations.
So I’ll give you an overview of what I think you should do. I’m not really telling you what to do, this is not financial advice, it’s just mostly food for thought to help you point your compass in the right direction, which I feel that you are starting to do. So I know this is going to sound difficult and it’s probably gonna be very obvious, but the biggest and the best thing you can do is find a way to increase your household income. And it sounds like you’re already trying to do that, but it might not be kicking in for you yet. Or you might be using the wrong tools, strategies or gigs if you will, to get there. And again, I know this is far, far easier to say and talk about than it is to do because it involves making some big changes in your life and when you have family with kids, it’s sometimes very difficult to make that decision because you don’t want to jeopardize your livelihood and your, you know, your family of course.
So I know you’re doing something about it now with Amazon, but you may need to find other or better ways to do that. I’m just talking out loud here, but you know, again, new job, a pay raise, a second job, spousal income, either full-time or part-time, a different side hustle, another side hustle, a new small business of some kind. The goal, the goal here is to increase your top line income that that’s the fastest thing you can do. The best thing you can do. I know it’s easier to to talk about it than it is to do it, but I just again, want to point these things out, however obvious they might be and to get you to think about it. So the reason you want to focus on increasing your total overall income is it will help you get out of debt faster and sooner.
Increase your ability to save sooner than later. And the sooner you get there, the better off you’ll be. That will speed things up for you. Working on lowering debt is helpful, but you still want any and all extra income you can get because you’ll get there faster. It just helps you accelerate the loan and debt payoff that you have if that’s what you need to do first. But it also adds to the bottom line, which allows you to save up, you know, the the down payment capital or the investment capital that you need. So in addition to all that partnering with someone, this is also something to think about in the interim and along the way it was part of your journey partnering with someone who has the investible capital, either all of it or most of it, but lacks the time and or the knowledge that you’re gaining to find and work the real estate deals that you want to invest in is another way to go.
This is essentially called a partnership. You bring the sweat equity and you do the work, you do as much as you can and sometimes it’s really all of it. They bring the cash and they become your silent partner. This is a way that you can get into the game sooner and it helps to fast track what you’re trying to achieve while you work on the other stuff above, meaning paying down debt and more importantly, increasing your income, particularly your top line income, not so much your net income. That’s basically in a nutshell, you, you, you do have to change your situation and I know it’s easier to talk about this than to implement this, but if you think about it and stick to it and find the ways to make it work, you can make it work. And sometimes it involves big changes, not just small changes.
I know you can do it. I have faith in you. I believe that most everybody who’s who’s determined and persistent and tenacious can get it done. So Spencer, I wish you, you know, wish you well. I know you’ll do it. Just keep plugging away. All right, well that will be it for today. I’ve gone 35 minutes or so and I think we hit six, five or six, maybe seven questions I can’t even remember. But that is it for today. If you have a question about real estate investing finance or whatever you’d like me to answer on the show, simply go to passiverealestateinvesting.com and submit your question. Click the Ask Marco link. If you haven’t already subscribed to the show, remember to do so. It’s just a three second click on the subscribe button on your podcast player. Help us share the show with your friends, family, and other like-minded people. Just let them know about the show. Visit us on iTunes if you can, and leave us a quick rating and review. I appreciate it in advance, I do read them all and I thank you very much for them. Thank you for listening and we will see you all on our next.
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